Helta Skelta Interview

In the second half of 2012 I took Helta Skelta's vocalist and guitarist (Jon and Brendan, respectively) hostage in the back seat of my car. While I didn't have a gun to their heads, the doors were locked and I had a tape recorder and some questions to ask. Helta had just released their self titled LP at the time, which was and still is one of my favourite records to come out of Perth. Since then, the band have released two EPs and come a very long way in refining their sound. This conversation is a great snapshot of the band and the general state of affairs at the time.

S: S4D
J: Jon
B: Brendan

S: Hey guys, what records have been stickying your pants recently?

J: Records I like at the moment, I really like that new Men record...

S: Open Your Heart?

J: Nah Leave Home

B: There's a new one.

J: There's another one? Is it a full length?

S: Yeah it is, came out early in March.

J: Well anyway, Leave Home is wicked, it's really diverse.

S: Yeah I thought it was better than the first one.

J: Immaculada? I reckon they're about the same, because Immaculada has got a couple songs that have some real stomp in them. I'm pretty sure Leave Home had a guest spot from the vocalist of Total Abuse, I think, because I know they moved to New York and probably would be mates. Anyway, that's good, the Total Control record is sick, um what else...

B: That Burning Sensation LP.

J: I haven't even heard that.

B: ...and that new YOB album that came out last year.

J: I still haven't heard that Royal Headache album, everyone is going on about that - did you like it?

B: Yeah it's okay.

J: I also really like that Wiccans LP Skullduggery, that's cool. Condominium, their LP is good, and their 7" as well. Diet Cokeheads are also pretty cool, they've released a few 7"s recently. Have you got anything to add to that?

B: Nah man, just that YOB album from last year and this reissue of an old folk record, guy called Michael Chapman. It's his first LP but it's being reissued, it's pretty good. Called Rain Maker.

S: What's the background behind Helta Skelta? Was there any particular impetus to form the band, or did it simply come out of a 'friends jamming' scenario?

B: When Jon moved to Perth, we were on the same page when it came to music so we decided we would start a band. It was Ash, Jon and me, really, we wanted to start something up.

J: We sort of looked at what was happening in Perth at the time and thought maybe a band like Helta Skelta might be a good fit. Originally we wanted to do just an 80s hardcore band, kind of like Black Flag or the Adoloscents, but then it changed a little bit over time. But that was the original goal. And because the line-up's changed quite a lot over the last couple of years, the sound's been allowed to run its course naturally, which is kind of good.

S: When did you form exactly, was it right before the tape, so like 2010?

B: Yeah it was right before the tape. We recorded it almost straight away.

S: What do you guys make of Perth hardcore in 2012?

J: Well we're not really part of it, Helta Skelta I mean.

B: Yeah, Perth is divided between terrible hardcore and then there's the DIY stuff, but I think the DIY side of it is pretty good.

J: Yeah the DIY scene is sick. Everyone's so jaded on hardcore because there's so many shit bands, so the DIY scene is mainly heavier stuff, like crust bands, noise bands, powerviolence bands, etc.

B: It's small enough that no one has any beef with anyone.

J: Yeah, it's definitely very cohesive, whereas the other hardcore scene has a lot more politics. We don't even need to concern ourselves with it, Helta Skelta is not even on those guys' radar. They wouldn't really be into it.

S: Then how do you think Helta Skelta fits into Perth's 'scene' (if at all), and also how it fits into international trends?

B: There's that whole garage thing which is pretty big, especially in the States, and there are heaps of labels putting out that stuff. But internationally I think it's not anything that's different. It's probably different in Perth though.

J: Yeah, we're heading into a garage-y direction. That's really the whole thing, locally it's relevant, there's not really anyone doing it in Perth. In Melbourne, it's bit of a different story.

B: I could never do a band that only plays the garage-y stuff, I'd have to have some heavier riffs or I'd just get bored.

J: We've got a pretty broad range of influences as well so we can pick and draw from a variety of things. But what I was saying before, a lot of people say that US bands all sound the same, there's the whole mysterious guy thing and then the garage thing, but I think when you look at the US geographically a lot of these bands are from different cities so in their own turf they're still relevant, but when you look at it from overseas you just regard them as 'American' bands.

S: Helta Skelta reminds me of 80s bands like Koro but with an almost 'surf-punk' vibe, something I think fits perfectly with Perth in an atmospheric sense.

B: I think the whole 'surf-punk' thing wouldn't exist if Ash wasn't in the band, it'd be much more hardcore. Ash's guitar tone is really bright and reverb-y and I think that's what gives it that 'surf-punk' vibe.

S: When you guys played live I remember you had quite a heavy sound, which wasn't there so much on the LP.

B: Live is different to recordings, definitely, in terms of the sound we get.

J: Yeah you're right, Ash does bring a surf-y kind of vibe. Originally we had that balance, because we liked the contrast between the guitar tones, like on the first couple of 86 Mentality 7"s, how one was kind of fuzzy and the other was clean. Which they actually changed in the end, it didn't sound as good though, on that Final Exit record.

B: But lots of bands do that though, a band like Night Birds, who, at least for me, are the classic mix betwen 80s hardcore and surf guitar.

J: They remind of the Dead Kennedys actually. They're a good band.

B: What was the question again?

S: Yeah I never even finished it. That was my interpretation of the sound, but the question was where do you think it fits in Perth (I think it fits perfectly), in terms of the city's atmosphere. Would you agree, and where else do you derive your influences from?

B: So do you think it fits in Perth because we live near a beach?

S: Pretty much!

J: Ha because we're all avid surfers.

B: Summer is definitely a big thing, but I don't think our music is very positive.

J: Yeah, and that makes those surf riffs kind of ironic, which is good though. It's a pretty weird band really, because the influences are diverse and the vibe's pretty negative, and then there's quite poppy bits.

B: I think there's a lot of accidental irony.

S: Do you all share similar musical tastes?

J: There's definitely common ground.

S: Is there much variation?

B: I think there definitely is. Ash listens to heaps of 60s music, soul and twee-pop and shit like that, and I listen to a lot of experimental, drone, noise.

J: We probably have a fair amount of common ground, but a lot of different tastes come into the mix. And we've got two new members as well. It all comes together though - the common ground is probably 80s hardcore and garage punk/garage rock, that's where we come together.

S: How collaborative is the song-writing process? Having 5 members probably adds a different dynamic to the band, at least in terms of constructing songs - do you all sit and write together or does one or two people do the majority of it while the others shape their contributions around the already written structures?

B: Usually the songs are written by Ash or myself, it's normally about a 50/50 split. We'll have a rough idea of how the song will go, in terms of structure, then we'll bring it to practise and then tweak it, basically.

S: What's your process Jon, when you get the music, how do you work the lyrics into it?

J: It's usually at home. I'll either write the lyrics to the song, or sometimes I'll just write a load of stuff if I have a good theme or a concept and then work it into it, but yeah I write all the lyrics. It all comes together pretty well.

B: Every band I've ever been in has always been the same - the guitar player writes the song, it gets tweaked at practice.

J: And also for vocals, I don't know if you ever find this for Warthreat, if the bass player or drummer is writing lyrics for the song sometimes they don't bear in mind what it's like to actually sing it, and they'll make the phrasing really hard to sing.

B: For Warthreat, I do the phrasing months in advance. I get the phrasing right then I write the lyrics to the phrasings. That's why there's fuck-all lyrics in Warthreat songs.

J: I do it at the same time, but I definitely cut stuff out, because you always favour how easy it is to sing rather than what the actual lyrics are. It's not fucking literature is it, it's just punk.

S: As far as I know you've only released the Parasite demo in 2010 and then your s/t LP late last year - why the large gap between releases?

B: Well the record was recorded in March last year, so there was 9 months before it was released, mainly because we didn't have any money and it took fucking ages to finish recording because we did it all ourselves. I was studying, trying to pay rent etc.

J: And we've all got heaps of other committments. It's not really like it's a side project or anything, it's just hard to focus on one thing. We lost our drummer just before we were gonna record...

B: Oh that's why it took fucking ages! Like a week before we were about to record, he quit.

S: What was his reason for quitting?

J: He just wasn't feeling it, I don't know.

B: We knew he was going, but we tried to make him want to do the record. We were supposed to record it in November 2010, before I went away. It ended up happening in March last year.

J: We got Pat O'Brian in the end, he plays drums in Golden Staph, he played on the record and a couple of shows with us until recently, and it all worked out for the best really. His drumming is really good and I liked having him in the band. So anyway, we weren't really in a hurry or anything, it's not like we had a label, we haven't been touring extensively, we just took it at our own pace. I think it was amazing that people are still interested in hearing this stuff, considering how much we don't like promoting it.

S: If my memory serves me well, the demo tape was more 'subdued' (if that's even the right word), than the LP. Obviously a year or more will change the way a band sounds - in what ways did Helta Skelta evolve or mature between the releases, in terms of the sound?

B: I just think the songs were a bit more dynamic. But the demo tape is a really good example of the LP, there's a mixture of the garage sound and the Black Flag-inspired stuff.

J: Yeah we sort of carried on with that trajectory. The tape was a studio recording, whereas the LP was more of a lo-fi recording. I don't think we really changed drastically from that point though, we just had an opportunity to write more songs that experimented with that dynamic.

B: I think the biggest difference between the tape and the record is the feel of the recording.

J: Yeah I agree, I don't think the songs are necessarily any better written.

B: They're probably a little more interesting, there's a bit more going on.

S: What was the recording process like?

B: We just borrowed a bunch of gear from a friend of ours, and he showed us how to use it. We could only record at certain times because of the shop [next to 208].

J: When I was doing the vocals it was pretty chilled out, but when we were doing the live tracks with everyone it was pretty stressful.

B: We just basically set up as we would play in there but just put couches to isolate the amps. When Jon did the vocals we built a booth in the corner. I think the recording was pretty bad, now that I thought about it. It was pretty arduous and it took a while, an hour here an hour there.

J: We're all pretty disparate personalities in this band, trying to work together is sometimes testing. But that's true of a lot of bands. When you're trying to record, some of the stuff can be pretty technical and you are going to get pissed off with each other. Our friend did us a massive favour by lending all of his gear, but he didn't have the time to literally record everything for us, so he showed us how to use it and we did it ourselves. Brendan mixed it, and because I was doing vocals I was working the desk and it was pretty much learning how to use it at the same time as recording with it. We lost takes and stuff, there was a lot of experimentation. Considering all that, the end product was actually pretty good. If we were talking about recording again I'm not sure how we would go about it.

B: Less mics. Definitely less mics.

J: Oh yeah for sure. We learnt some lessons though, it was an experience.

S: How was the LP received? Has it sold out yet?

B: The pressing was of 270, we got 250 pressed but they sent us another 20 for some reason, and there's 100 copies left. It's gotten pretty positive reviews but we haven't really pushed it, we just sort of put it out there. I hate bands that push shit.

J: It just leaves a sour taste, it's just like self-promotion. It's available if people want it but we're not forcing it down anybody's throat.

B: We've got some in distros overseas, in the States and in Europe, but we're definitely not going to flog the shit out of it. Fuck that.

S: So it has been received well overseas?

B: Yeah I think so.

J: People who have heard it from overseas seem to like it. I know that our bass player contacted a couple of labels in the US.

B: There's a bunch going to Grave Mistake and Sorry State, and also that Spanish label La Vida Es Un Mus. I guess if we've sold copies people must like it. But yeah, I'm so against pushing it. If you want it, it's there.

S: While poring over the LP, I've found the lyrics to be remarkably negative, which I think is somewhat unsettling in comparison to the music - was this intentional?

J: Yeah, I like the juxtaposition between the happy/poppy riffs and the negative lyrics. A lot of our songs are about weird and abstract topics, that kind of stuff, it's been a while since I wrote it but one of the things I was trying to do quite a bit is to contrast political issues in the 60s with modern stuff. That's in a couple of songs. I was just trying to be abstract in a lot of the tracks, as opposed to the same old issues we hear in hardcore. With this band I felt like the lyrics should be more 'out there' or whatever.

S: A lot of the lyrics seem to be metaphorical, but I can make out religious imagery ('Son of Man', 'Helta Skelta'), contemptuous rhetoric on war, specifically relating to Britain ( 'Slave I', Ascension of the Crucified Skins', 'I Am Shiva') and general disdain for idealism, with lines like 'times are-a-changin', LSD naivety). Can you give any commentary on the lyrics as a whole, or specific songs that are meaningful to you?

J: That 'times are-a-changin' line is just a Bob Dylan rip,  the song it's from is just about Cold War tensions.

B: If there's one theme that Helta Skelta has, it's 60s and 70s Cold War paranoia. A lot of the songs and the names refer to that period. I think that time was just fucked, people were seriously fucking insane. So paranoid about communism that they did all these fucked up things.

J: Then you had people that were part of the counter-culture, and they were fucking out there as well. It's such an interesting period, when I was writing a lot of the songs it just seemed cool to write punk songs about that period even though it predates punk and hardcore.

B: It's also interesting for us, since we never really lived through the Cold War, it's a good way of discovering and learning about the period.

J: That time was just really gnarly, basically.

S: I found the cover art to be an accurate depiction of the music, lighthearted and eye/ear catching from the outset, but actually quite negative and acerbic at its core - is there any correlation? And who designed it?

B: Jamie Doohan designed it, he plays drums in Mental Powers.

J: I think we gave him the songs, maybe the lyrics as well.

B: We didn't really have any idea though, we just really liked his flyers. The only thing we said was to not have Helta Skelta on the front.

J: Yeah the flyers he had done were really good, and some of his other stuff is too. Ash knows him quite well. It took us a while to get there with the art but it's really good, I think. It does capture the record pretty well.

S: Is there a conceptual element/overarching theme to the record as a whole?

B: Yeah the Cold War paranoia theme for sure, but that's just as much for the record as it is for the band overall.

J: Yeah. 1960s 'fuckedness' is kind of the main vibe. Then trying to relate that to some modern stuff.

S: So like the idea that nothing has really changed, that people still are doing fucked up shit all the time?

B: Maybe not doing fucked up shit but just doing things out of fear, fear that doesn't exist. It still happens today, people are fucking scared of boat people or whatever.

J: It's the way people are, and we repeat these patterns.

S: Is there a political theme to the band?

J: Vaguely. It's very tenuous, we don't really support any causes or anything. It's a real half-arsed nihilistic political message.

B: There's a message, but we're not trying to force it on people, just draw their attention to it.

S: What's next for Helta Skelta? Will there be more records or shows in the near future?

B: Nothing booked. But we really want to do a 7" soon.

J: It would be nice to do another recording with the current lineup. I dare say we'll be in a position where we'll start playing show again. It's looking positive though, the new lineup is good. We had our first practice with the new drummer the other day, he's pretty good.

S: How did you guys find him?

J: Ash found him. He was buying a scooter off Ash, because Helta Skelta is a band comprised of both mods and skinheads, they're both the same person as well.

B: Mods, skinheads and punks.

J: Haha, but all the same guy.

S: So are there any particular records that are coming out soon that you're looking forward to?

B: Oh yeah, DIAT. It's the bass player from Golden Staph and the drummer from Hard Luck, they both live in Berlin. I think he's from Hard Luck. They've got a 7" coming out on Iron Lung and it's fucking sick.

J: What, on Iron Lung? Is it really good?

B: Yeah it's awesome.

S: What do they sound like?

B: They're not dissimilar from Golden Staph, maybe a little darker. I check the Iron Lung page almost weekly to see if it's out yet.

J: How did they get onto Iron Lung?

B: Just emailed them. They've got a demo tape out that's awesome too.

J: I'm looking forward to the new Slices LP.

S+B: It's out.

J: So, I was looking forward to it, but now it's out. So I'll be going onto mediafire later. Also keen on this new Men record that's out as well. Other than that, I don't really have much time to keep my ear to the ground with that kind of stuff. Things pass by me.

S: Is there anything coming out in Perth that either of you are looking forward to?

B: There's a band Boab in Perth that have had a tape in the works for 12 months or something like that.

J: Are they good?

B: Yeah they're fucking amazing. They just jam though, don't play gigs. They have the best gear and do some amazing drone stuff.

S: You're all alone on a cold and dreary evening with nothing better to do but lie on the floor and listen to records - what would you put on?

B: Since I already read this question a few days ago, I prepared my answer and my answer is Neil Young - Live Rust.

J: Do you just get one?

S: You can have as many as you want.

B: You've changed it now, I'll have to change my answer.

J: I'd probably listen to the Lush record, Scar. For that scenario. I'll only give one because Brendan only chose one. Then I'd borrow his Neil Diamond record.

B: Fuck off.

S: Thanks for your time guys, any final comments?

J+B: [censored]

Cellgraft Interview

Some time before they disbanded in 2013, I was fortunate enough to get in touch with Zell of Cellgraft for some questions. Cellgraft was a Floridian grindcore act that put out a number of high calibre records, such as their External Habitation demo and the Deception Schematic EP. Not too long before they played their last show (but after this interview was conducted), the band released an excellent LP to mark their contribution. Take a walk down memory lane or become acquainted with one of the better grindcore bands over the last few years.

S4D: Hey Zell, what's new over in Florida? Have you heard any impressive records recently?

Z: A whole lot actually, lots of amazing fests and tours coming through this year. We usually don't get a lot of that so when we do it's something to be excited about. I've personally been trying to listen to all 80s heavy metal lately, especially at work. Been listening to Sacrilege - Within the Prophecy a lot, shit's so tough.

What are the bands in Florida like? Is there a quality vs. quantity debate or is the underground music scene fairly strong?

It's actually a really strong scene all over the state. Incredibly tight bands and incredibly tight scenes. The thing about Floridians is if there's a sweet show that's around 5 hours north or south of them they'll make the drive out. Mostly because Florida was starved for good shows from bigger bands that usually don't make it down here. I think that's also why there are so many great bands as well. We figured that if we weren't going to get the bands we liked come through we would just make the music we wanted to hear. I think Florida is just recently getting the attention it hasn't gotten it a long time, and for good reason.

What bands from your area would you recommend to a fan of Cellgraft?

Devout, Ives, Morphic Lapse, Maruta, Shitstorm, 440, Meddling Kids, No Qualms, Rotting Palms, Nunhex, God Harvest, Bastard Deceiver, Radiation, Vomikaust, Flying Snakes, Knife Hits, Panzram, Devalued and a bunch more I'm probably forgetting. Seriously, great bands from all over.

I don't know too much about the background behind Cellgraft - care to fill me in? How did it all start, who's in it and what brought you guys together to play music?

Before Cellgraft was Piles Sufferers. It was a way more death metal sounding band. After the original guitarist stopped showing up to practice Matt and Chris asked me to fill in. Eventually we made the decision to change the focus and the name of the band. A lot of the songs on the Revenge demo were songs from those days.

Are any members of Cellgraft involved in other bands or projects? Are there varied musical backgrounds amongst the band or do you all share similar tastes?

Matt and Chris are actually in a few other bands together. Morphic Lapse, Faith Addiction and Final Doctrine which are tech-grind, hardcore punk and black metal respectively. I'm in a crust/grind band called Bastard Deceiver. Cellgraft and Bastard Deceiver will be touring together in August as well which should be fun.

Is the composition a collaborative effort or does most of groundwork come from one or two inviduals?

Me and Chris write the song either together at practice or on our own. Matt writes most of the lyrics and puts them to the music afterwards.

Cellgraft hints back to old school grind but with a lot of modern elements too. How influential were bands like Insect Warfare on the formation and sound of Cellgraft? What other groups were pivotal in determining Cellgraft's style?

Insect Warfare was actually a very big influence on us early on. Them and Assuck. Besides that old school bands like Napalm and Terrorizer obviously had a part in the direction we wanted to go. Occasionally we'll pick out small parts from different death metal and black metal and d-beat bands we listen to and mix it in but for the most part we just go by the general rule of "add blast beats. Then add more".

 There is a strong DIY element to Cellgraft's music, with the rough recording in my opinion adding levels of urgency and depravity to the sound - was this intentional or was it simply the easiest method to record on? Do you plan to stick to DIY recording in the future?

At some level we actually try to be DIY but usually it's just us being broke and not wanting to ask for help. Grindcore isn't very big in Tampa and this is the first band any of us have worried about putting out releases and how we're going to get recording out. With that said, no one was going to do it for us so we just got it done the way we could. I don't see elaborate studio recordings and gate fold double LP releases in our future so it shouldn't change too much from here.

Has the band's recording process changed across releases?

Usually we just ask around amongst our friends and see who wants/has the ability to record for us. We're not super picky, haha.

The band self-released the first two tapes, the self titled and External Habitation. How was the reception towards these recordings? Do you feel that they made an impact on listeners at large?

As soon as those were recorded I tried to push them online. I know that when there's a grind band I haven't heard of but I get a chance to listen to them I try to take it. I just hoped other people who are into grindcore shared my mentality. It being free and on the internet definitely helped it spread a little farther and faster. That and all the help we've gotten from the grind obsessed bloggers all over the world. Without them we would just be another local band.

The band has been featured on a couple of splits, the 4 way comp with Ives, Hot Graves and Nak'ay and more recently the excellent split with Drainland. How did both of these records come about?

Our friend Sam is in Ives and runs Primal Vomit so he just asked if we wanted to be on it and he put it out. I used to trade tapes with Jamie of Drainland for a long time then he brought up doing a split 7". I thought it would be cool to do a split with a band that wasn't a grind band, and to do a split with a band that's not from the US. Our friend Nevin from IFB records in Ft. Myers, FL actually ended up being one of the labels distributing the split so I think it worked out for both bands in the end.

You've mentioned to me that there was a split with Nespithe which was delayed/never came out? What's the story behind that?

Well Fex from Nespithe apparently made of a few of these splits himself and got rid of them quick. We never got any of them though but still wanted to release those songs on our own so that's where the Revenge demo came from. We only released that via download. There were two songs we left out from the actual split though, they were best left unheard, haha.

Each subsequent Cellgraft record seems to be doing its best to improve upon previous releases. Do you guys make an effort to remain fresh and exciting with your music? Can you see yourselves changing much in the future? The tracks on the Drainland split at times descended into noise which I thought was done superbly - is this a sign of things to come?

We're always aiming to be tighter both live and on recordings. I started learning guitar from the ground up for Cellgraft so as I learn more the sound naturally changes a bit. We won't devolve into raw noise as far as I can tell. The only thing we consciously aim for is to sound huge, stay tight, and not stray too far from grindcore.

What's a typical Cellgraft show like? I know you've supported bands like Dropdead and have a few big ones coming up (Magrudergrind and 305 fest with the likes of Iron Lung and Bastard Noise), but do you still play small house shows etc.? Is there much interest for Cellgraft within your locality?

When we aren't focused on writing we usually make a set list for a show and try to practice running through it as fast as we can. We never play the same set twice so it doesn’t get boring for us or the people who see us play more often. I live across the street from a punk house called Hold Tight! House so we play shows there sometimes. Other than that we try to wait for the better shows to present themselves. People in Florida (Tampa especially) have seen us so many times now I'm just worried about wearing out our welcome.

Cellgraft's lyrics seem very nihilistic and dystopian, certain lines bringing to mind the idea of oppression through ultimate technological control. Who writes the lyrics and what sorts of things (books/records/movies/politics) inspire them?

Matt writes all of the lyrics, I think Chris has written one or two though. Matt's kind of like a quiet philosopher, always examining everything. He's disillusioned in regards to politics, reads a lot about history and listens to a fuck load of black metal. He doesn't write songs all about one thing usually, just what he's thinking about or finds interesting at the time.

Are you familiar with Australian grind or underground music in general?

I know the Kill is from Australia, buts that's the only grind band I actually know of from there. Portal is too, that shit is intense.

As far as I can tell Cellgraft is in the process of recording its first LP - can you tell us anything about it? How will it be different to previous records, how are you releasing it and when will it be available?

It's actually done, we're just finishing the design for it now. RSR is releasing it for us along side a repressed and remastered External Habitation 7". The new record is a lot more frantic sounding then any of our other releases. Not as death metal or punk oriented I guess. Hopefully it isn't a major departure from what we've previously released, but it is definitely a little different.

Coming to the end now, here's a bit of fun - what would be your top 5 records to play when punching somebody in the face?

P.L.F. - Pulverizing Lethal Force

Mammoth Grinder - Extinction of Humanity                    

Terrorizer - World Downfall

Insect Warfare - World Extermination

Repulsion - Horrified

Thanks a lot for answering my questions, any final comments?

Thank you for caring about a band that's literally across the world and thanks to every grindcore nerd who has supported us in any way.

Drowning Horse & Warthreat Interview

This is the interview I conducted with Micky of Drowning Horse/Suffer/Warthreat in mid-2011, appearing in the first issue of S4D. It still is probably my favourite interview, and despite the fact that both the bands I cover (Drowning Horse and Warthreat) have advanced in leaps and bounds since it was published, a lot of interesting information regarding influence, foundation and performance is discussed.


Hey Micky, what’s been happening over your end of town recently?

I have been quite busy of late. Each band is due to record this month or next month, so I’ve been busy either recording, writing or finalising songs with each band. On top of that, I have to make sure I spend plenty of time with my puppy Varg, as well as work, lose on scratchies and/or whatever it is that grown up people are supposed to do...

What was the last record that impressed you?

Out of the new(ish) release records I have acquired of late, the ‘Giftgasattack – Noise Hero’ LP seems to have received the most repeat listens. Also the recent Scapegoat LP is one of the more flawless hardcore records I’ve heard in recent times and would be a strong contender for hardcore record of the year!

You play in Suffer, Warthreat and Drowning Horse (that I know of). Do you have any other musical pursuits besides these?

There are other projects which I work on and plan from time to time, but a lot of these are just based around riffs and ideas; there are no other ‘serious’ bands that I am apart of at this point in time.

How much does the city of Perth influence your music?

It’s hard to say, as I have never lived anywhere else. Being in such an isolated part of the world may have an effect on making it harder to find good music, but I think the fact that Perth is such a boring ‘dullsville’ of a town, it has probably made me more proactive to go and seek good underground music and make an effort to create my own interpretation of the kind of music that I enjoy. With such a small community, it’s also a lot easier to find like minded people who are into underground music and can introduce you to bands or artists that you may not have discovered on your own.

What do you think of Australian underground music, particularly that of Perth? Are there are any new acts you would recommend?

I think Australia homes some of the best underground music in the world! Each state tends to have their own kind of style or approach to the music which they make and Perth specifically have been responsible for breeding some of the more original and interesting underground punk bands over the past few decades. Recent/newish bands who have caught my interest are The Hunt, who are probably my current favourite local band, playing a really dark metallic crust style akin to Tragedy or Wolfpack, Clenched Teeth, Foreign Aids, Frozen Oceans, Happy Families, Lie Cycle, Negative Reinforcement and the newer Javier Frisco stuff is pretty cool too. I could probably rattle off a few other friends bands who have been around for a while longer, but they’re probably decent enough on their own accord to need to be namedropped. Australia wide, awesome bands that I have heard but are yet to have releases at the moment are Last Chaos from Brisbane, Vaginors from Adelaide and The Zingers from Melbourne.

Let’s talk about Warthreat. How would you describe the band’s sound and influences?

Late last year I received a message from Luke, asking if I would be interested in playing bass/vocals in a Disclose worship d-beat band. Before that I’d told Luke that I’d been writing a few d-beaty kind of riffs and wanted to know if he’d be keen on drumming for a recording or something and he seemed keen, but at the same time he was jamming the Warthreat songs with Zaheer, so it probably seemed more appropriate to see as to whether I would be keen in completing their lineup. We’ve tried hard to stick to the Disclose worship approach, playing strictly noisy ‘D-beat Raw Punk’, but we do take influences from other punk and D-beat bands such as Anti-Cimex, Discharge (although Disclose are pretty much a Discharge worship band anyhow), Mob-47, Disorder, Bastard, Gauze and some of the more modern noisy punk bands like D-Clone, Electric Funeral, Giftgasattack, No Fucker, System Fucker and the mighty Framtid. I guess our main aim is to emulate the Japanese raw punk sound, adding as much noise as possible to create the Warthreat sound.

Recently at a Suffer gig at 208, an amp precariously placed on the mantel fell onto the drum kit during Warthreat’s set, due to what I assume was the amp vibrating so much from the noise/sound level. How do you feel about noise music in general, and how significant a role do you think it plays in hardcore?

The noise aspect of Warthreat is quite different to the specific noise genre which relies more on oscillators, contact mics, etc. The noise which we convey is probably more based around the excessive use of distortion and fuzz, making certain instruments sound more like a high frequency or white noise, rather than the instrument that it is supposed to. Zaheer has a rather noisy guitar tone as it is and when I was playing bass, I would split my signal; one amp would have a fuzzy, yet decipherable bass tone to cut through the mix and the other amp had an eq of all high, no low, full distortion, which sounded more like a messy white noise rather than a bass. I also use pedals such as phaser’s and wah pedals for a swishy effect in some sections.

The incident where the speaker fell on Luke’s kit occurred due to Brendan’s use of delay on his vocals. We have a more traditional mid-paced punk song, which does not have a d-beat(!) and there is a bass dropout/noise section where there is heavy feedback/phaser and Brendan adjusts the rate of delay on his delay pedal, creating an oscillated delay effect. When he did this at the 208 show, the oscillation created a big bassy sonic boom type noise and caused a speaker to drop due to the vibration of the frequency. The noise aspect is very important with the style of music which Warthreat play, in staying true to the sound of our influences and it is also a lot of fun too! I do also listen to quite a lot of other noise related projects/power electronics acts and have recently adapted more power electronics to Suffer and use LFO’s and heavy delay effects in Drowning Horse also.

Warthreat have put out a demo thus far, which has been spending a lot of time in my tape deck. Can you say a little something about the recording process, and perhaps the reception to the demo?

The instruments on the demo tape were recorded live in Luke’s living room on a digital 8-track. The vocals were later added a week or so later and the demo was mixed at my home not long after that. I am quite satisfied with the hugeness of the drum sound, however it is lacking a bit in punchiness form guitar and there were a few mixing issues that I probably should have paid closer attention to – which are mistakes I will not make again in the future. It may have also served better to have recorded a second guitar track, but a demo is a demo and I think it came out quite well and better than some bands who record their songs on an iphone or some shit and press the tracks to tape.

We had a first run of 50 tapes, which were pressed through Lifeshaper, which were distributed locally and around Australia through a few distros. This pressing of the tape is not too great, as the tapes were dubbed in mono and the recording relied quite heavily on a stereo mix. There was a second press of around 150 demos, which were dubbed professionally in stereo through DEX audio. These have been distributed around the world and we have received some pretty good and flattering feedback from this run of tapes. A lot of the material is a bit more dated now and some of the newer songs sound a bit different to the songs on the demo, however I am quite happy with how the demo came out as a whole (although I am my own harshest critic and I can never be completely happy with any of the projects I am a part of).

What’s on the agenda for Warthreat? Last I heard you guys were recording some new material. Is there a full length in the works?

Warthreat are currently in the middle of recording for a 7” record. The recording is around 80% complete so far and I am also taking on the recording and mixing duties for this. We’ve taken a different approach to our recording, so there’s a whole lot of different/noisy guitar tones and things like that. Three of the songs from the demo have been re-recorded and there are also 4 new songs (I think?). We have been working on new songs which we plan to record before Zaheer moves away, but we can’t really move onto until this project is completed. The new songs will more than likely be for a split release or something like that. No plans to release an LP at this point in time, but this band does seem to pump out new songs a lot quicker than any other band I have been in, so it is quite possible that an LP may be on the cards for sometime in the not too distant future.

I guess I should also shed some light on the current Warthreat lineup situation. Zaheer is planning on moving interstate around August/September and I will be taking over the role of guitarist in the group. We have enlisted Shane Hunter of The Craw fame to take over bass duties and we will be a 5 piece with two guitarists up until Zaheer’s departure.

Moving onto Drowning Horse, can you give us a bit of history behind the band? It’s hard to find any solid information on how the band started and who played in it at what stage.

I've been a part of Drowning Horse for almost two years now. To my knowledge, the band originally started with Kim on Vocals, Brendan on guitar, James on drums and Rohan (Extortion, All In Deep Shit, Collapse, etc.) on bass. This was the lineup who recorded the track 'Kings' on the split with Gore Crow Tones. Before Drowning Horse, Kim, Brendan and Rohan all played together in metallic-crust band 'Defeat' (their 7” is due out soon; they were one of my favourite Perth bands that I have ever seen live), so Drowning Horse may or may not have started out of the ashes of that band. To add another, heavier dimension to the group, Rohan asked me to join Drowning Horse on second guitar, as he knew that I had played guitar in a band in the past, had decent gear and was into sludgey, doomy kinda stuff. We jammed infrequently around 4 or 5 times until Rohan later moved over to Melbourne. Brendan, James and I jammed a few times together, working on some of the older tracks, as well as writing new songs, but decided it would be hard to further as a group without a bass player, so we then recruited Robin Mander (ex-All In Deep Shit/Hospital Beds) as he expressed interest in the music we were playing, had played bass in a band before and was keen on acquiring a huge bass rig (which may be one of the more important factors!). The five of us have been together now for over a year now and in this time we've written quite a few songs together; some of which have been scrapped, some of which have not, as well as playing around 15-20 odd gigs together.

Drowning Horse has an overwhelming stage presence, which in my opinion is very difficult to capture on record. What’s the recording process like for Drowning Horse, other than your live recordings?

I am yet to step foot in the studio with Drowning Horse. All recordings apart from 'Kings' from the split with Gore Crow Tones have been either live or rehearsal recordings. We are booked in for a 5 or 6 day recording session with Al Smith at Bergerk Studios mid-July and have been working on the same 4 songs for over a year now and have planned out a lot in regards to effects, layers and approach. I would imagine that there will also be a lot of experimentation, which is generally the case with our live shows anyhow; a lot of the structures and effects tend to rely on a bit of improvisation here and there, which is hopefully for the best.

The one band that Drowning Horse reminds me most of is Corrupted. I’ve noticed you sporting a Corrupted patch, so I assume they’re an influence. Can you talk about what inspires Drowning Horse, both musical and non-musical?

The collective influences that Drowning Horse share predominantly would be doom bands such as Burning Witch, Neurosis, Sunn O))), Corrupted, Earth, as well as some Norweigan Black Metal influences and even to a smaller degree some metallic crust bands. We all have input into the song writing process, but the majority of the riffs I have come up with would definitely be some of the more Corruptedy/Griefier kinda sounding riffs. Corrupted are hands down my personal favourite doom band of all time, as they are so versatile, powerful and extreme, so it's not really surprising that some of our music would remind listeners of a band like Corrupted. In saying that, I don't sit down to write a song and say 'this is going to be a Corrupted sounding song' or 'this is a Neurosis riff' and we don't sit down together and say 'it would sound cool to chuck in a Tragedy melody here' or whatever; we all bring in our own personal influences and approach to the music. I can't say a lot in regards to what influences Kim lyrically, however I will say that he has some excellent lyrics, which are almost short stories in a way. Drowning Horse also like to play with minimal lighting (preferably red lights) at cold temperatures.

As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, Drowning Horse are recording material for an upcoming LP. The most I’ve uncovered is that it’s to be recorded very soon and hopefully out by the end of the year. Can you tell us a little about what the record will be like, and if the creative process behind it is any different to a typical Drowning Horse performance?

The material which we will be recording spans over 60 minutes and we plan to release this as a double LP, with one song per side. Some of the material is pretty old, as there has not been a studio recording since the split 7” and most of the songs can be found on the live cassette (although some of the songs have been reworked/restructured). We are going to try and make each song flow in one way or another, so if you listen to the songs together on CD or in a digital format, they will all flow together like one atmospheric track – the way all good albums should. If you are a fan of doom, drone, ambience and black metal; there should be enough of a mix of those genres to satisfy you. We will be experimenting a lot with different amps and effects, but will keep the sound and the songs as true to how we perform them live as we can.

Do you think there’s much of an interest in sludge and doom in Perth? As far as I know, there aren’t many other bands playing this style of music.

There are little to no Doom bands in Perth. There are some bands which tread into the territory, such as Atolah and Cease, but as far as I know Drowning Horse are currently the only full fledged Doom act that are active in Western Australia. There is another band in Perth however, called BOAB who have similar influences to Drowning Horse, but they are not very active and are more a jam band if anything. We have tried to get them to play shows with us before, but they are all older guys who have other things going on their life.

There seems to be quite a lot of interest in the style of music that we play within Perth and we always seem to get great reception from a lot of different people within very different genres/subgenres of music. We play shows with hardcore bands, indie bands, garage bands and many others and a lot of people seem into it, whether they play or listen to that sort of music generally or not.

Last week Drowning Horse played at the Bakery with some ‘experimental’ acts, and I thought that in lieu of the other bands playing, you decided to ditch the traditional set and explore instrumental territory with the aid of a trombone. Turns out Miley Cyrus had something to do with it – care to elaborate?

The show in question was the Abe Sada / Sub Ordnance split LP launch and after we had committed to the gig for some months, Kim told us he was unable to play the gig due to ‘other plans’. We decided against pulling out so close to the date of the gig and decided to perform an elaborate rendition of our song which is currently titled ‘Anne’. This is a two riff song broken up into three sections; an instrumental intro, a mid section which is based around a drawn out drone and vocals and ending with a heavier riff/drum section with a few vocals also. It turns out that Kim couldn’t make it to this gig due to having tickets to Miley Cyrus, so we decided to stretch out the song Anne to around double its usual duration, as it is the one song which is probably easiest to translate in an instrumental point of view. I added the odd vocals here and there over the drone part, however instead of singing line by line as Kim usually would, I sang them in a more spaced out manner. I don’t actually know what Kim sings, however have been told what the song is about, so I tried my hardest to convey the same meaning through the improvised lyrics which I was singing during the drone. As James does not play any drums during the mid-section drone, he added trombone (which will also be included on our recording and hopefully in our live sets in the future). It was very fun and different on stage experiment. We did not really rehearse the structure for how we performed on the night, but we work together well as musicians, so I think we managed to pull it off well enough.

I’m sure no one’s asked you this question before, so I will – if you were only allowed to listen to five records for the rest of your life, what would they be?

This is a really tough question, as I listen to a LOT of different music and have a lot of favourite artists in different genres. I will try to cover all bases as best and have an answer that has remained relevant over time and would remain relevant in the future. Some of my favourite songs and releases are also of the 7” or split variety; but the more material the better, so this will be strictly long players!

Crossed Out Discography LP
Big L - Lifestylez of da Poor and Dangerous
Framtid – Under the Ashes
Corrupted – El Mundo Frio
The Organ – Grab That Gun

Cheers for answering my questions Micky, any final words?

Thank you so much for your interest and support. Hopefully my answers make sense – I have replied to the majority of your questions whilst at work, so if they don’t make a lot of sense, it’s more than likely due to me being interrupted whilst in the middle of them. New Suffer, Warthreat and Drowning Horse will be out within the next few months.

Drowning Horse
Suffer
Warthreat

Mammon Interview

‘I am a false prophet, God is a superstition’

This is the interview I conducted with David of Mammon in June 2011, which was originally published in S4D#1. Mammon are a blackened doom band from Canberra, Australia, who've made waves with their demo, entitled Demiurge.

Hey David, can you tell us a bit about Mammon’s inception?

Max and I had played in bands before and were playing in a band at the time which was going nowhere. In early 2009, we decided with another friend, Tom, that we wanted to do a 3-piece metal band. From there, we basically induced large amounts of marijuana and occasionally emerged from our bong den to jam riffs. After maybe 6 months of that we got a new drummer, Ken, started smoking less weed at band practice and began to get shit done. We recorded Demiurge at the end of 2010/start of 2011 with this lineup. Ken has since gone overseas and we are now working on a new record with a new drummer, Finch, who recorded Demiurge.

While the music on Demiurge is not all together experimental or anything, I find it hard to categorise Mammon into a specific genre – there’s elements of sludge, post-metal as well as both hardcore and black metal. What have you got say about this? Was there a specific template in mind when you were writing the music, or did it just come out?

Despite being initially conceived of as a doom/black metal band, the music never took on that sort of template. We’ve retained the idea of focusing on atmosphere and of stripping the band down to its essentials but we have never played doom or black metal in the traditional sense. Instead, it has informed the ethos we have worked with. We all listen to a lot of different music and have all spent time playing in hardcore bands. As we focus our writing around concepts, we’ve been able to focus more on how to evoke and express that concept, which has allowed us to incorporate a greater variety of styles, rather than remaining reliant on a specific genre template.

In terms of style, where do you draw your influences from? Do you and the other members share a similar taste in music?
We draw from a myriad of influences, musical and otherwise. Writers such as Baron D’Holbach and Michel Onfray influence our work as much as the music of bands such as Fall of Efrafa, Burning Witch or Leviathan. We share somewhat similar musical taste. Our original drummer was heavily into black metal and doom. Ken listened to a lot more hardcore and crust, such as Tragedy. Finch is very into bands like Botch and Dillinger Escape Plan. Max and I share pretty similar taste. We’re both into doom and sludge, and I probably listen to more black metal, while he listens to more death metal, but we tend to enjoy the same bands. On the whole, I think we all tend to enjoy music that’s heavy and has a strong focus on atmosphere.

What’s the underground scene like in Canberra?

It’s very small but surprisingly fertile. There are a number of high quality bands from Canberra, such as 4 Dead, Pod People, Dead Kings and I Exist, who have all helped foster quite a healthy scene. Ultimately, though, the scene consists of a small handful of individuals, who tend to play in a number of bands – I Exist share members with Pod People and Life and Limb, who share members with Dead Kings, who share members with 4 Dead and Sense and Goodness, who share members with Mammon and The Reverend Jesse Custer.

Demiurge was released as a CD-R, which you were nice enough to send free to anybody who wanted. Did they go quickly?

We’ve sort of produced CDs as demand has required. The initial run was of 49 which we released at a show in April and we got rid of all of them that night, which was a good start. Since then I think we’ve put out maybe 85 more, which has been really positive. We’re still sending copies out, too.

What was the recording process like for Demiurge? Was it DIY or did you do it in a studio?

It was all done DIY. Finch did all the recording and we used his equipment. Drums and bass were recorded in a rehearsal room before Ken left for Japan. Guitars and vocals were recorded after that in Max and Finch’s houses. This required some pretty inventive Tetris-like manipulations of household space but we managed to work it all out. It was a more positive experience doing it DIY, because of the pride associated with having created something entirely of your own volition, rather than involving outside assistance. It was also a lot simpler.

Mammon was started with a specific concept, a concept revolving around a rigid opposition to organised religion. Can you elaborate on this a bit more?

I think that Mammon’s concept goes beyond just being a rigid opposition to religion. I would say, instead, that the concept involves the preservation and advocacy of autonomy, respect for human rights, progression of secular and rational moral discourse, and the rejection of abjection and totalitarianism. The concept is defined not only by what it stands against, but also by what it stands for: a naturalist world-view. We are opposed to intrusions by religion into all discourse – moral, social, political, or otherwise – as we believe it is an immoral force that serves to put in place an archaic and irrational form of morality that serves only to promote humanity’s enslavement and is greatly opposed to its wellbeing. It is irrational and highly dangerous, as it promotes sexism, xenophobia and a nihilistic view of life. It is conducive only to the degradation of our species.

What do you think of naturalism?

The adoption of naturalism – the view that the natural world is of the greatest importance and that the preservation of it and the beings in it must be promoted – is a moral necessity. It epitomises the rejection of religious nihilism and fatalism in this life in exchange for the lies of transcendence, and advocates the embrace and celebration of the present. In emphasising the finality, and thus the importance, of this life, it also highlights the need to fight against those who would attempt to diminish the importance of this life and destroy one’s opportunity for happiness and well-being through bigoted archaic moral principles.

While Australia is a ‘secular’ state, at least in comparison to other particular Western democracies, there are still a lot of religious elements in politics. Is there any political emphasis in Mammon’s music?

As a band we are apolitical. Obviously, though, we strongly advocate secularism and oppose the intrusion of religion and regressive religious morality into politics. While it is not something that is overtly dealt with in the music, we are all opposed towards projects such as the Schools Chaplaincy Program and the refusal to grant equal rights to homosexual relationships. Parties such as the Christian Democrats, Family First and the Protectionist Party reflect the intrusion of religious conservatism into Australian politics and show that Australia still has a long way to go in terms of becoming a truly secular state. While we do have an atheist, female Prime Minister, the continued illegality of homosexual marriage shows that Australian politics has clearly not moved away from religious dogmatism. We are instead in support of a post-Christian secularism, as championed by Michel Onfray, in which a reliance on religious dogma and practices is dismissed in favour of a worldview and value system that is derived entirely from critical analysis and rational discourse.

Demiurge’s artwork was done by an artist named Jacob Rolfe. Can you tell us a bit about the meaning behind the art, and whether we can expect to see Jacob working on more Mammon records?

The artwork was essentially intended to embody the visual representation of our lyrical thing. As ‘demiurge’ means creator and originator of evil, the artwork represents revealed religion to be this demiurge, in the form of a great serpent (ironically, a beast associated with the devil and evil – implying that it is truly the holy and sacred that are most evil). The snake entwined through the church emphasises this relationship. We’ll definitely be getting Jacob to work on the future Mammon records. He’s an excellent artist, as well as a friend who I’ve known for years. His work for Demiurge perfectly evoked what we wanted it to represent.

Will this general concept be a continuous aspect of Mammon?

The band name was chosen due to its religious connotations and its ironic reference to theocratic greed (that organised religion, which has created ‘God’, truly represents Mammon – the embodiment of greed) so I think that our atheism, in its anti-theistic and naturalist forms, will be a constant theme in Mammon’s music. It is something we truly believe in and believe that it is necessary to fight for.

You’ve mentioned that Mammon is recording new material. Will this be a vinyl release, and do you think Demiurge will ever re-released on wax?

Our upcoming record has gone through so many different permutations that at this point I’m almost unwilling to say anything definitive about its release. However, it is currently our intention to be releasing it as a 12” that consists of one large song broken into two sections. At this point, it’s unlikely that we’ll release Demiurge on wax; it’s more likely to get a limited run cassette release. In the future though, if we have other shorter recordings, we may release Demiurge with these prospective recordings as a collection on wax.

Do you collect vinyl? If so/if not, what’s your opinion of the format’s revival in recent years, particularly with underground music?

I think we would all shy away from being dubbed ‘collectors’ as I’m sure there are far more dedicated vinyl enthusiasts, but we certainly all pick up a fair bit. We’re all very supportive of its revival. It offers a far greater opportunity to explore the potential of artwork and packaging, allowing a more cohesive piece of work to be produced. It also requires greater commitment on the part of the listener, as there are simply more physical steps in listening to vinyl and it forces the listener to listen through the whole album, as opposed to flicking through mp3s. This promotes greater connection with and immersion in the music, as well as encouraging bands to focus more on writing entire records that can take the listener on a journey.

We’ll finish off the interview with a tried and tested method – your five favourite records.

Max (in no order):
“left hand path” – entombed
“damaged” – black flag
“LA” – flying lotus
“black sabbath” – black sabbath
“loveless” – my bloody valentine

Finch (what he’s currently listening to non-stop):
“Miss machine” – The dillinger escape plan
“You fail me” – Converge
“Nuclear sad nuclear” –The number twelve looks like you
“Manhater” – Robotosaurus
“Night Hag” – Night hag

David (five favourite records I own physical copies of):
“What it Takes to Move Forward” – Empire! Empire! (I was a Lonely Estate)
“Of Malice and the Magnum Heart” – Misery Signals
“Fas – Ite, Maledicti, in Ignem Aeternum” – Deathspell Omega
“Chronoclast: Selected Essays on Time’s Reckoning and Auto-Cannibalism” – Buried Inside
“Chaos Is Me” – Orchid

Thanks for answering my questions, any final comments?

Thanks so much for the interview. It’s so heartening to see such a thriving DIY community and we’re all grateful for the opportunity that people like you have given us to be a part of it. We’re always happy to continue these discussions and speak to anyone interested in similar issues. Please feel free to contact us at mammonband@hotmail.com as we are always keen to further any sort of discourse around these topics. Thank you.